Macgirvin.COM

mike

Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:58:41 +1100

This is interesting... my computer just automatically updated its clock for daylight savings. Only problem is - that's not supposed to happen for another two weeks. Australia/Sydney and Ubuntu 21.10.

This could be a huge problem for network infrastructure servers on this side of the world.

Hans

Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:00:36 +1100

Ubuntu should not be used for serious stuff

mike

Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:14:48 +1100

Solved, but this is an interesting situation. "Automatic Timezone" was selected in the settings and I never set this, so it's an Ubuntu default. This uses the internet to determine your location, and at least in Australia this location setting is notoriously inaccurate. So my computer suddenly thinks I'm in Brisbane and changed the timezone to match. Usually it places me at Telstra headquarters in the Sydney CBD and I'm nowhere near there.

So it's not an Ubuntu problem per se, but more of a Telstra problem. Why am I not surprised?

And if I'm not at Telstra in Sydney, why not? Did something happen at Telstra and they needed to fall back to another data center?

Hans

Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:05:08 +1100 last edited: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:05:24 +1100

@mike I am not sure if that could be blamed on Telstra, are there other Linux pc's around you having the same problem but are not delivered by Ubuntu?

mike

Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:26:50 +1100

I believe I alluded that setting timezone based on location was an Ubuntu default and in this case was not something I would've wanted. So that's an Ubuntu issue. But I also recognise that this is a sensible default for people in countries where this actually works and keeps them from ever having to worry about the time. So I can understand why Ubuntu made that choice as they do try to provide a lower barrier to entry. Tough call. My work PC is Ubuntu but they disabled that setting. I didn't even know it was there until today.

If you think Ubuntu is so bad that I should quit my job, you're entitled to your opinion; but I have no intention of doing so. And what I use on my desktop is a throw-away anyhow. I had to install a bunch of GAFAM crap via snaps to get through my web developer certification so I wouldn't have to do that on a Windows or Mac. I plan to wipe it when I'm done. What I replace it with is frankly none of your business and will be based completely on what functionality I actually require - just as it always has been. So I respect your opinions on the subject but bugger off.

Waitman Gobble

Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:38:17 +1100

Interesting. I wonder what mine is set to. A lot of times i set the computer to GMT and add other timezones to the clock. I'm in AST without DST so it can cause problems .

Hans

Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:08:53 +1100

If they needed a hot swap then it should either be close to the timeline crossing I think. I do think it would be a desaster for financial systems

mike

Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:30:13 +1100

They could also just fix their location mapping service so it refers to the end-node like it's supposed to. But after 15 years of waiting I'm glad I didn't hold my breath.

Hans

Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:30:50 +1100

Most people know why I hate it, but I will bugger off

Tanja

Tue, 22 Mar 2022 23:09:20 +1100

Am I reading this correctly, that this means that DST doesn't start on the same day in all of Australia...?

mike

Wed, 23 Mar 2022 05:03:29 +1100 last edited: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 05:07:45 +1100

You've no idea. We've got timezones that start on the half hour, and Queensland doesn't use Daylight Savings at all. Australia is also notorious for changing the Daylight Savings date on political whims and this has traditionally led to all kinds of problems with software. I remember in my Netscape days we had a special release group tasked with rebuilding every product for Australian time zone changes.

Edit: however I think all the states/territories which use DST change DST on the same date currently. That wasn't always the case.

Tanja

Wed, 23 Mar 2022 06:27:00 +1100

@mike

I remember in my Netscape days we had a special release group tasked with rebuilding every product for Australian time zone changes.

Ouch. Well, I supposed that's also a form of job creation...

Tanja

Wed, 23 Mar 2022 22:10:14 +1100 last edited: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 22:18:52 +1100

@mike

I realized what confused me about this. After I saw your first reply to this post, where you explained what apparently happened, I looked up Brisbane. Then I saw your reply about Queensland not using DST, and it didn't immediately make sense to me - if Queensland doesn't use DST, why did your computer switch you over...? This morning I woke up with the realization that you must still be on DST with the switch back to normal time coming up. Sometimes the whole season reversal is still a little hard to wrap my mind around

Adam Robertson

Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:23:16 +1100

I keep thinking I should switch from Ubuntu to Debian, but I have been using Ubuntu for so long now that I have just adapted to the quircks...that and I have finally managed to switch several people over to Linux via Ubuntu.

mike

Wed, 23 Mar 2022 16:02:04 +1100

I think Arch is a lot more sensible, but I've got a bit more of my certification to complete before I can throw out vscode and chrome and all the other crap I was forced to install as part of that. I just see it as another war. License wars, code style wars, editor wars, platform wars, browser wars, fediverse wars...

Use what works for you. Fuck war.

Tanja

Wed, 23 Mar 2022 22:01:32 +1100

@mike

Use what works for you. Fuck war.

Absolutely. I used Ubuntu for over a decade, and I really liked it, and I would still recommend it to beginners. In the end, I didn't ditch it over ideology (much), but over Snap. I don't like Snap, mostly because it's inefficient, but I also don't like the lack of transparency, the closed-source server part, and the fact that Canonical keeps developers and users locked into their own app store. I still wouldn't have cared; the first thing I used to do on a fresh Ubuntu installation was to get rid of all snap dependencies. I could still get everything I needed through deb packages. Then I needed a browser other than Firefox, and apt install chromium-browser pulled first Snap and its dependencies, and then installed the Snap package for Chromium. I was one of the staunchest supporters of Ubuntu, when all the ideologists came along talking about FOSS purism. I wanted an OS that just works without too much hassle, and I also installed Ubuntu for users coming from Windows, because I knew there are very few updates that break things. But the Chromium / Snap deal crossed a line for me. They took my choice away, and in the end, that's what drove me off.

I'm now running Debian on both my VPS and my home server, and Manjaro on the desktop. I started my post-Ubuntu life on the Desktop with Debian as well, but they take forever to provide upgrades to some software that I use a lot, and when I found Manjaro, I was quite happy and stuck with it. There aren't any proprietary drivers for my ancient NVidia graphics card anymore, but for what I'm doing, the Nouveau driver works just fine.

I'm sure there are some Arch users who look at Manjaro the same way the hardcore Debian enthusiasts and militant FOSS defenders look at Ubuntu, but it does work, and out of the box, too.

frank schleusener

Sat, 30 Apr 2022 10:35:55 +1000

Use what works for you. Fuck war.

amen to that. i just want to throw in another distro i arrived at after i found that arch took too much effort to maintain: openSUSE tumbleweed. it's turned into a true rolling release distro eventually but is more stable, requiring less intervention & fixing than arch did. i've been using it at home for many years now with no serious problems. on servers i usually stick to ubuntu since it's more widely supported.

Waitman Gobble

Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:15:08 +1100

Einer von Vielen

Thu, 24 Mar 2022 07:50:47 +1100

I used Ubuntu for over a decade, and I really liked it, and I would still recommend it to beginners. In the end, I didn't ditch it over ideology (much), but over Snap. I don't like Snap, mostly because it's inefficient, but I also don't like the lack of transparency, the closed-source server part, and the fact that Canonical keeps developers and users locked into their own app store...

@Tanja For a couple of years now I keep switching from Debian to Ubuntu if I am not able to get a new hardware running and back to Debian if I get it running. I think I should give Manjaro a try as well. Thanks for the thoughts.